Part 150
Sitemap '--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ' Whole Lots More Fabulous Items/Ideas For a BioShock Rapture MMORPG '--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ' ' Part 150 ' --- --- --- --- --- --- AE TRAIN CAR FIX ''' : My 'fix' to the AE train design - double wheel drives to prevent the pitch (torquing swing) caused by water flow that would pull the front or rear wheels off the track and affect the drive force of those wheels. Better structure to the wheel positioning actuators. Spreading the traction wheels further apart (wheel base) changes the leverage that can be exerted (when the placement is close together, and near the body length center, it acts like a hinge point and the car swings about like a pendulum (particularly with acceleration/deceleration). --- --- --- '''An Important Animation They Couldn't Even Do Kosher : The Ball Throwing Scene where Booker is exposed as the False Shepherd and two cops descend on him. While the one cop has Booker held by the right wrist (looks grabbed with both arms), the other Cop's rotating Skyhook is forcefully headed directly for Booker's face (is mere inches away in slo-mo). THEN that Skyhook is SUDDENLY held far away (magically moved), as Booker looks down (nodding head even closer) at his no longer restrained wrist, and throws upwards (with his right hand, lower arm is bent up - so its close) the #77 ball, directly in front of himself and the 2nd cops face (who is quickly distracted, staring at it dumbly - and then is turning too far away from the perp AND THE Ball). Booker grabs that Cop by the neck (using right hand+arm) and pulls him back then pushes forward towards the other cop - ramming the cop's face (his hat mysteriously vanishing) onto the Skyhook which is strangely now held with both hands aimed towards the 2nd cop (instead of it being pushed again in the direction of Booker). The Skyhook shreds the 2nd cops face, who goes down backwards (its embedding in the bone, spraying blood on both cops). The Skyhook instantly is dragged free of the First cop's grip (bodes not well for hanging on a Skyline - did it rip out his trigger finger ?). Booker then bends over and quickly sticks his left hand into the Skyhook, yanking it out of the shredded Cop's upturned face. Booker then advances on the other cop who now (magically no longer covered in gore) has a club ready in his right hand, and who is deftly dealt with by a left hook swing of the Skyhook. Other club wielding cop's are summarily dealt with (slaughtered), and the attack of one finally armed with a gun simply is shirked off by Bullet-Sponge Booker. Amazing how inept the cops are, and how Booker instantly becomes a master Skyhook fighter. The First Time I saw, it it looked wrong. You'd think they could rotoscope some realistic movements exactly, and come up with some proper flow of action to achieve the same ends WITHOUT a bunch of stitched together wrongly positioned illogical movements. Booker doing a dropback with a left arm block knocking the cop's Skyhook arm away might've helped here, but would crap on the rest of that contrived gory sequence. Have Booker then dragging the 2nd cop (still restraining his right arm) back toward the camera, and then using him as a shield to push away into the First cop's again advancing Skyhook (unfortunately all the *good* gore action would be out of view, as the 2nd cop got it in the chest, facing away from Booker). Its plain this extreme bloody violence was desired in this scene (intended for sales to a certain demographic ...) ' "OMG OMG, ITS GOT AN EXECUTION COMMAND !!!! I WANNIT !!!" ' And was contrived to HAND the Skyhook weapon to Booker. Note - that the Skyhook doesn't even operate as needed (NO hooks are shown extending out as they would need to as it spins - to 'grab' anything - a rather POOR buzzsaw device there). Its other operation ON a Skyline is even more mystifying. Overall, an 'F' grade for FAILZ in a badly choreographed CANNED scene. --- --- --- Rapture Transportation : Rapture is a town/city which likely had 10000+ workers who needed to get around every day, and there is all the sustenance for the population to be moving all across Rapture. There really is no equivalent to the flexible Automobile/Truck transport which became central to American cities in the 20th Century. Rapture needed something more substantial than 'Bathyspheres' (or 'subs') for its mechanized transportation, which had to move large numbers of passengers AND great masses freight everywhere in the City. Those (grand) Huge/clumsy Bathysphere stations (AND you do not see alot of all what HAS to be there BELOW them) were too far and few between. Coupled with the Bathysphere vehicles's small size (capacity) they would be wholly insufficient for the City's needed transport. The AE was more like a main artery (and like a subway train), and could move bulk but was further limited in flexibility. Its stations were too complex and large. The Pneumo (which potentially COULD be used for *small* freight) is limited in size, and in any case wasn't added/operational until quite late in Rapture's history. Walking and bicycling is only sufficient for local traversals (not for cross city mass transit/transport). The Trams with their 'street' (and with no water interface) could be more effective, and should be far more extensive (we saw only a minute representation of its system) so as to sufficiently/efficiently interconnect Rapture's many building clusters. A system criss-crossing all of Rapture with viaducts and tunnels would be required. Rapture really was only a caricature of a city, purpose built in that form, so could have its transport systems tailored without having it self form as had real cities. Skipping the 'automobile' component could be done as the City was largely preplanned to incorporate its required transport. --- --- --- Tunnel Construction as an Economic Measure (For Rapture's Population Expansion) ' : Technology (plasma rock cutting) was first being used (in early Phase 1 construction of Rapture) for cutting out basement volumes (into bedrock), for placement of Prefabricated buildings foundations, and embankments for the AE. Tunnels were developed for "Farm" interiors to be economically expanded (unpopulated volumes with lower risks from potential catastrophic failures). Tunnel Lining improvements later were made for building much safer interior spaces (useable for populated zones). Tunneling was used for some segments of the Tram/Trolley system. You prefer to go THROUGH hills, rather than around them, AND the construction could be more economical than prefab Trolley Viaduct structures. Residential 'Tunnel' construction became the equivalent of (Real World) Levittown, with fast inexpensive mass construction techniques and prefabrication, and built-in appliances being provided. The need was for Rapture's expanding population (family growth), and new living space had to be created. Over time the population also wanted more variations of their residential options (and some people moved from certain areas which were less desirable). This later city expansion had to be built with no infusion of 'new' money (from outside - as was used for the original construction extravagances). It was made possible by employing experience/techniques learned/developed - about what worked and what did not. --- --- --- ' The Real Columbia ' : The "Particle" (Party) Pill for Columbia - it was all hallucinated (?) Comstock (Lil' Injun) gave Lutece a dose (some Indian Herbal Hallucinogenic) -- she though herself her brother (what a trip !!), and she sometime dresses as a man (other times not). She also thinks things are floating around her, and that SHE made it happen -- that would explain ALOT of things ... Booker had 'something' slipped into his bottle while he lay unconscious on his office floor (or was it in a Flop House - its hard to know if ANY of it was real ...) All a 'fever' dream - or worse. ' Here's Booker's Brains On Drugs. DON'T DO DRUGS !!! ' --- --- --- '''Magic Glass (Note - It Is Needed For The Shootfest Type Game) ' : I noticed that in some places the internal (non sea-facing) 'glass' is that unbreakable stuff -- the product of a game level (terrain) issue with having windows 'breakable'/shatterable, instead of that generic 'cracked pattern' used on all the UNBREAKABLE external windows. Destructible windows do require more game level graphics/scripting resources to implement (( '' Note : the game IS designed for a median graphics capacity of their customers computers, so a line had to be drawn at a fairly low bar '' )). Elsewhere there is a explanation of why the external windows might be unbreakable (given enough explosives you can destroy anything, and YOU KNOW Players will attempt that (perhaps : "Sorry You Drowned and your Corpse was Unrecoverable - Please start a new Game/Account.") Being more careful where you fling ordinance MIGHT have made the game more challenging (but would force restarting a 'Saved' game). Keeping the NPCs from doing the same would require FAR MORE 'smarts' to the NPC AI programming (another prohibition on limited Player computer resources). That brings up the issue for the MMORPG (where much more of the Game World's "terrain" would be modifiable/destructible), instead of 'static' which most games have to have for their 'levels' (Its a Game Engine issue). Most window glass would (in the MMORPG) be breakable. External windows ARE a special case because they have to be ultra-strong anyway to hold upto that 280lb/sqin Ocean Water Pressure on them - that Ryanium stuff AND some judicious level corrections -- to NOT have ridiculously large panes of it (Perhaps they can merely Crack, and then your friendly neighborhood Big Daddy will come around and fix it - and the perp doing the damage will suffer the inhabitant's Ire for endangering them all). In the MMORGP, you might want to save panes of ordinary glass you find (including large shards which might be cut into smaller windows). Useful MMORPG Tool - Glass Cutter (to facilitate cutting out nice sections and later fitting them where they would be used. --- --- --- Residence '''Roto-Rooter In Rapture : Plumbing is a useful BASIC Player Skill. Some places out in the Ruins are so Drippy that typically you will be wanting a waterproof tent if you have to hang around (Some Residences before they get 'fixed up' have a similar issue). Sewage accumulations are even more bothersome (Smells In Rapture). Portable Water Pumps are handy tools to have (and an assortment of tubes/hoses). Less desirable 'Residences' are adjacent (or downstream) of a leaky external walls (was always a problem). Clearing/Hooking up the drains (which lead down to the Sump Pumps) is required to get rid of the water effectively. Behind the walls (and the nice interior decorations) were the drip barriers, which now through lack of maintenance are not too effective. Diagram No doubt, one or more Mini-Game will be created around semi-realistic Plumbing activities. The ole drain 'snake' (a long flexible wire springy tool) is a popular item used to unplug the fouled drainages (leading eventually to those basement/foundation (utility) levels with their 'sewer' conduits). --- --- --- Birds in Rapture : As Pets (many don't breed in captivity). Getting loose/feral/abandoned * Closed/Partitioned interior areas hamper them * Them getting food a problem * Avoiding predators/vermin (rats love bird nests) * Crapping all over the place (public nuisance) * Cats love the taste of Tweety Birds * ADAM contamination may produce some interesting mutants * At Least one Dead Parrot for two Splicers to be discussing ... (a Norwegian blue possibly) Heh - ADAM might make them look like miniature Songbird ("Pigeon in a Gimp Suit") to delusional Splicers. We did see more than one birdcage in the original games. Chickens are birds. There would have been numerous 'farm' animal (livestock) birds. They grow fast when 'factory' type methods are used, and are an efficient method of making 'meat' for Rapture inhabitant's meals (as well as the egg production). I suppose there would be turkeys and geese originally brought in, but few probably would be left by the MMORPG's times. --- --- --- Little Sisters Go "Sleep It Off" After Guzzling Retrieved Body Fluids (From a Corpse)'' : So does the Sea Slug inside absorb the 'active ingredients', so that ADAM can eventually be harvested (maybe via electroshock ??) The LS do get 'tired' quite rapidly - maybe the Sea Slug is absorbing metabolic energy from them when the digestion/absorbtion is under way ? We don't know what happens to the Little Sister after she disappears into the vent, but being so tired its unlikely they crawl very far. Perhaps they are infrequently harvested (the ADAM chemicals need not be very bulky to require constant collection) and it may be after many days ? One would assume they are stable in the Slug. Do they (LS) do repeated collections (and guzzlings) from the same Corpse over a period of time ? Wouldn't it be nice (and convenient) if the Big Daddy moved those 'ripe' corpses closer to the vent (maybe the Little Sisters can ask ...) to make it easier ?? BTW - Like any normal animal, a Sea Slug would need nutrition and oxygen to live. So are they 'wired into' the Little Sisters blood stream to be supplied with those crucial resources ? The MMORPG no doubt will delve into these mysteries (Some might be TMI). Missions, of course, will be made ... --- --- --- '''Building (In The Game Story) a Plausible World : The Creation Being Limited Availability of the Following : * Time * Effort/Manpower * Knowhow/Knowledge/Skills * Tools * Materials * Money * Opportunity And By the Gamemakers : * Cleverness * Knowhow/Knowledge * Dedication * Honesty * Will to Achieve something hard. * Lack of a 'For The Buck' Mentality. * Vision Technical Change is far harder when a created 'World' (game world) is to be an Isolated Microcosm where everything is supposed to be formed largely within itself (any advancements created within). All the new fancy shit had to be made IN wonderous Columbia (unless the rest of the world ALSO advanced from the same discoveries --- and THAT wasn't mentioned once). Likewise for 'ideas stolen from the future', products/mechanisms don't seem to have been pulled through Tears - only the ideas (so again the stuff needs all to be made in Comstock's Floatytown). --- --- --- Rapture TV ' 'Bum Fights' the Rapture TV Show ' : Gladitorial Combat equiv (probably closer to 'Big Time Wrestling') ??? Win Prizes !!! Match of the week : Hobo Joe vs The Guttersnipe. The "Windmill of Death" tactic of one well known contestant became a byword amongst the fans. Exhibition Wrench Fighting ... Little Sister cat fight (kitten ???) Columbia would have Televised Executions (if they had TV) but no doubt many could be filmed and put into Kinetoscopes for edification of the public good. --- --- --- Columbia's Massive Industry ? (Still Would Be A Mole on Andrew Carnegie's Butt)'' : Ugly for ugly's sake (a bad puppet show used to condemn America Society ...) Massive Industrial factories shouldn't even exist there. Rather useless and nonsensical (Who are the customers ?? A few thousand Crazy Cultists ??) While at the same time it is unexplained about the hows and whats for a place which consumes basics - is required to be fully supplied to keep the people alive, but has no source of supply FOR THOSE THINGS. Elsewhere I've explained why Rapture cannot mass-manufacture much at all (ex- any mass-machinery (paid for up front) pushes costs (and prices) past that of hand crafting, and there's too few customers to justify such a scale). Columbia would be a similar micro-economy (and in an age with even fewer machines and knowhow, which in later decades would at least have made some mid-scale mass-production possible). What is produced that requires such huge-scaled manufacturing In-Game ? The thousand other (more important) products made by a hundred small industries isn't evident (skipped over/ignored/avoided ... while being essential in a real place). It is all just a *Huge* Industry FACTORY caricature contrived to FOIST a defective '''Management VS Labor theme -- WHEN it was really impossible to even exist there. But they (the writers) had to have their societal portrayal for more of their 'Evils' of Exceptionalism America, 1900. (( '' The game FORCES stupidity towards the Players, things which proper Fantasy Storytelling avoids. Please don't dump obvious BS on the Players while making believe y'all are clever Kenny -- its NOT clever at all. Good storytelling avoids getting trapped in that situation '' )). --- --- --- Muppet-like Things : Jim Hensen was doing commercials with his 'Muppets' (Marionette Puppets ?) in 1957, and this kind of production can be FAR more inexpensive than some complex (costly) hand-drawn animations. Educational Newsreel shorts (Rapture), and as the Advancement on "kinetoscopes" (Columbia). Also it is logical for "children's TV shows" (which really are a front for Toy Commercials, which with Rapture's expanding child populations, would be a logical development). SO thats another Tool for the game : Puppet Manipulation scripts for TV Commercials (and the 3D modeler Importers for all the weird puppets the Players will come up with). Redo Infinite BS's Duke & Dimwit to be what it should have been (Imagine THEM coming after the Player with machine guns, and spewing profanities !!!) A GIANT Duke 'boss' which must be overcome ... '' "Duke learns how to properly make the noose, Dimwit manages to choke himself. Don't Be a Dimwit !!!" '' --- --- --- Conflicts of Theme - Endemic : Why should so much of Columbia look like the 1893 Exposition architecture? Simply repeating it - hardly stands out from the rest of the Exposition, does it ?? (( '' Game artists simply copying the Exposition, with little imagination required because its easy, is the most likely explanation '' )) AND THEN the further building of it during Comstock's Cultist Utopias (post 1902) LIKEWISE looks the same -- Why copy that previous detested modern 'evil' immigrant-contaminated libertine world ??? Does that make any sense ? Aren't these cultists supposed to be Reactionary ??? Rejecting the diseased unholy modern world ??? Moving backwards to Plantation Gothic and Ante-Bellum styles should maybe have been the choice ? Beaux Art Eurotrash moderninsms ?? There are obvious serious conflicts of ideas from these developers, who touted themselves as so knowledgeable, no ?? I understand the writers got screwed by Levine's repeated changing of the games theme/story, so maybe its no wonder it turned out so contradictory and illogical. --- --- --- QuantumPunk ? ... Not Really (BSPunk In Place of That Fits Infinite BS Better) ': PlantationPunk has alot going for it (Cultist-FauxReligion Punk ...). Infinite BS had some very strange ideas about being 'America 1900'. It leads me to question how much real social ills they dodged -- out of simple Cowardice. ((Milque-ToastPunk)). "Straw-manned" their way through using the game's adversarial setting : Cult Religion, an Antebellum Plantation mentality, Faux-Science strangeness, a Police State that East German commies would have vomited at ... Making believe 'it means something', when it was lightly sugared pablum. --- --- --- 'Wave of The Hand Plot Details, Pushed At The Player : So you've seen pictures of the Starship Enterprise, right ? So that means you should be able to make your OWN, right ? You even can get the blueprints of it (online). OK, so how about something simpler : How about just making your own working Hand Phaser or Transporter. You know it works, right? Should be simple, no? So, just make it. ..... A Problem there ? There is a slight issue of people these days being so ignorant of how things work (Ex- try making Your Own Cellphone ...) and of ALL the REALLY monstrous amount of effort and work and money and brilliance and collaboration (and decades of technological developments in numerous discipline) to MAKE ALL these things we have (and which we can commonly buy cheaply in OUR modern world). Most of you couldn't MAKE a simple WIRE from the raw materials, LET ALONE a Transistor, OR an IC chip. Brilliant Genius doesn't come into it. That is : when the mass of everything else just isn't there to make it possible. That's not what the writers of this game think (and tell you) is possible when they have Jeremiah Fink just 'Look at things through a Tear', and then magically make them himself. (And THEN set up an industrial production process for them in Columbia.) Utter ... Stupid ... Ignorance (which doesn't bode well for ANY OTHER 'world relevancy' things portrayed in that game - YES, the history, society, science, religion are all BULLSHIT too). Writers say : "Hey We need this in the story, so lets just hack together a 'line of bull' to pretend such things then exist - illogic is just a minor detail. Now we can get on with the Shooting Stuff. Such mental looseness is Fine for Fantasy games, BUT for one allegedly based on 'story' ?? And worse which is supposed to portray some kind of Real World Historic relevancy ??? SORRY, that's A Load of BS (and rather unimaginatively written BS). All credibility for any aspect of it is gone. Civil Rights in The South were won by Martians on Flying Unicorns ... (yeah its like that) --- --- --- Stuff Just Thrown Away : It was amazing how much booze and tobacco items were left laying around in the various Solo games. In such a disrupted (and likely well pick-over) place/setting, shouldn't such things all be long gone ??? Maybe they had a sufficiently adverse affect on Splicers for them to not want them -- though it barely has any negative on you - but then you might be reckless compared to the Splicers who had to live there a whole lot longer than the short time YOU were around. (Genetic-distortion maimed throat, lungs, stomach and bowels might make all those goodies poisonous to the average Splicer.) For Infinite BS it was noticed. There are so many comments by player-reviewers about the seemingly odd 'bin-diving' activity (What I call "Manic Magpie" - stuff you do to find ammo, money and such). Money is just thrown away into garbage cans for some reason in Columbia. --- --- --- Bosses ' "I CRUSHA YOU SKULL !!!" ' : Some Rapture MMORPG 'Boss' says this (What is it ? A terrifying mutant Christopher Columbus ??? Its part of that Authentic Diversity thing ... ). Unfortunately you can't really kill him or noone else will get to find and hear him say that. (The problem with so many MMORPGs is the static content which literally MILLIONS of players play through - exactly the same.) --- --- --- The Pen is Mightier than the Splicer : Ball point pens - cheap disposable ones started being manufactured around 1950 (some no doubt were brought to Rapture). Fountain Pens still dominated pen markets in the 40s and 50s (they are designed to be refillable). It took a while to perfect the ball point mechanism - it requires precision manufacturing (so old pre-Rapture ones probably were the best ones). Someone (an entrepreneur) would know/learn how to refill them (despite not being designed for this). 'Repair' businesses WOULD be more common than new manufacturing businesses in Rapture. Ordinary Pencils - low tech. Mechanical Pencils (invented as early as the 1700s) ??? Fountain Pens make a comeback (Squid ink? ... Kraaken brand Ink Pens ?) Robert's Rules of Mayhem (stab 'em with your pen ... Keep your pen sharp) Crayons still are seen laying about BS1 (we've seen these - amazingly Splicers hadn't eaten them yet). Ink of somewhat different formulation used for typewriter ribbons and printers (those computer printers in Minervas Den). --- --- --- Columbia - Bad Fantasy Fink Was No Edison - Couldn't Be : Edison had invented and then did research to perfect products for manufacture, which he then sold millions of to a large market (the US and world). He then used the money to make another product (and improve the previous ones). Fink has no significant market to sell to to get the money for anything further. Assuming ANY of the ignorant "see it, make it" logic the writers thought can work. Even reverse engineering is expensive, as is setting up production for making inexpensive products. So really : NO mass production, ONLY very expensive products, mostly hand crafted, AND virtually NO customers able to buy what little can be produced. Thus NO massive industrial complex to do that half abandoned milque-toast 'class warfare' theme BS. (FAILZ FAILZ FAILZ) FAR MORE LOGICAL JUST TO HAVE ALL THE STUFF STOLEN --- --- --- Stupid Is As Stupid Does : Penny-Farthing Bicycle seen (Big front wheel, teeny rear wheel, and you sit way high on it, no brakes), shown in early-game scenes of Columbia (the pre-mayhem walkthrough). Seriously, how far could you go riding it before running into some stairs or off an edge (and you sit nice and high up, to easily go over the those railings). Such a bike is designed for long flat roads (preferably a sufficiently uncrowded path). Another "Oh let's just add that" then for the designers - without much thought given to the actual setting. Little details can be so telling. --- --- --- Economics vs Fantasy Economics Something About An 'Isolated' Economy : What we see as 'Cities' (in the real world) are the endpoint/convergence for a large/huge/extensive flow of materials, goods and services from areas outside of the city itself. These flow in from other cities -- from the towns and rural hinterlands of the rest of the country (and from further countries across the World). Likewise, goods produced in a City flow outwards to other areas which lack the ability to cheaply mass-produce the goods themselves, or lack local sources of the required materials. Rapture (a functioning Rapture, existing before the Game's scenes of ruin in BS1 ...) being isolated (or limited BEFORE the ~1952 Isolation) cannot be anything like this. City processing of a few available raw materials and manufacturing from it would be fairly meager. SO THEN, Where do any other raw materials/processed materials/manufactured goods then come from ? With the cutoff from the Surface world in 1952 the inflow of many other materials would largely cease. Even before that time, the protected location secrecy made even modest shipments inefficient. The Smuggling would never amount to anything significant. Importing many Tools, also manufactured by complex modern processes, would likewise cease. SO Rapture's economy really cannot much be an equivalent to a real city ? Then how does Rapture's economy operate and get ALL of what its people need ?? It couldn't really follow the pattern of a Surface city, and have that massive inflow/outflow of goods, materials and services. Thus we have to adjust how we think about Rapture's economy, and the supply processes which had to exist. Raw materials have to be largely local. Farms, both interior and exterior (in the adjacent Ocean), would have to provide the largest mass for basic continuous consumption done by the population - food. Being the largest bulk product, makes it the item most impacted by the City's isolation and the impediments to mass transportation from the rest of the World. There is little mining potential on a near-extinct volcano mountain and underwater mining is extremely inefficient, and might only be justified for the most critical materials (and even then, most of those would be impossible). Externally, some food can come from the Sea in Rapture's proximity. Rapture-based subs, and maybe covert use of boats, to take fish and plant material from a large area around Rapture . Outlying City areas (not the Art Deco 'cityscape') would contain the needed processing plants/factories (Neptunes Bounty was of this type). Plant/animal farms INSIDE have been alluded to, and would have to be massive -- if Rapture's population is as big as the 20000+ figure (Novel). All of these WOULD simply HAVE to exist for the population to continue living. - The required Utilities of : water sources, power, heat, air have already been explained ( Hephaestus ). But there are hundreds of other materials/technology which city-type living/lifestyle requires. Ryan was aiming at making Rapture self-sufficient, and anything significant/important for which production couldn't be sufficiently sustained would spell disaster for Rapture's future. Mines are not likely to exist in a volcanic location (like that which Rapture is built upon - A Seamount ), and it is very unlikely for more than a few minerals to be produced from it. (( '' All those mined materials also themselves are unlikely to be effectively obtained within the required modern low cost (and thus have to be obtained from Surface countries where the many sources are entire geographical regions away - usually at only few good viable locations '' )). Many dozens of different minerals and metals are used in modern technology. Rapture would need ALL of them to make the products available in the modern world. Materials like Rubber are likewise important, but plastics were only beginning as a technology to substitute for them. Much would therefore have to have come originally from the Surface, and be saved/stockpiled til they were needed (MANY MANY years worth of Stockpiles/Reserves - Ryan's Hundred Year Stockpile ). Some materials which might have viable substitutes might have local sources , but they would be few and not satisfy most basic needs (AND they generally would not be cheaply obtained in any case). There would thus (have to) be a GREAT DEAL OF Recycling/Reuse (and thus more businesses FIXING/Repairing existing things, rather than NEW manufacturing. --- --- --- --- --- . . .